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motion sensor switch no neutral no ground

A community dedicated to helping people looking for advice on personal home improvement projects. PROBLEM SOLVED! Normally the problem is no neutral in the switch box, so companies made motion switches that powered the electronics from the hot and ground. The MS-OPS6M2U-DV and MS-VPS6M2U products allow the installer to configure the device to connect to either ground or neutral. Let Lutron’s Maestro Vacancy Sensor switch automatically turn lights off for you. Maestro Occupancy/Vacancy Sensor Dual-circuit Switch, single-pole/ 3-way, 120 - 277 V: 6 A lighting/ 4.4 A fan (120 V only) MS-B202: Maestro Occupancy/Vacancy Sensor Dual-circuit Switch, no neutral wire, single-pole, 120 - 277 V sensors that use the ground wire to function is not permitted. I was having the same problem. My lights were working, In my switch box, I had two black wires and two white wires that were tied together. According to Q&A on homedepot.com, the switch uses < 1 watt when "off". From the Manufacturer. Saw your comment after I refreshed. For some reason this neutral is not required, but a ground is. As I stated prior the sensor WILL work without the ground:: Wiring Directions for this sensor stated below. • To connect to ground, simply install the product in its "out-of-the box" condition. So - what do I do? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Read honest … Believe it or not that narrows down the field quite a bit. Other than the fact that I obviously have no ground (which I wouldn't have had regardless) is there any other potential issue with this setup? Just return it to the store, get a new one and try it again. Click on the above picture to read the instruction sheet. http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369-143.pdf But the HOSS does come with some compromises. 2. I had the thing hooked up correctly but the light was on and would not go off, and the switch would not respond to manual on/off. PROBLEM SOLVED! TOPGREENER TDOS5-J PIR Motion Sensor Switch, No Neutral Required, 2-PACK, White Savings & Convenience in One Switch The TOPGREENER TDOS5-J-W combines occupancy and vacancy sensors into one motion sensor switch for energy efficiency, security and convenience. Works with LEDs – Any smart switch I install needs to work with LED bulbs. In my switch box, I had two black wires and two white wires that were tied together. The instructions do say that a ground is absolutely required for the unit to function. If you have the access, replace that romex in your wall with a 3-conductor one (Black, White, Red and ground) Run black as your hot, white as your neutral and red to your load. I suspected that my wiring might be lacking a ground but I didin't think it would be very hard to fish a wire to make the connection. I do not have a ground wire (though the conduit should act as a ground when properly done) and no neutral (as this sensor does not have one either). It seems to me that the sensor needs a very small amount of current in order to work. ADJUSTABLE SENSITIVITY WITH WIDE FIELD OF VIEW: The motion sensor covers 180°, so all motion is detected. The Enerlites Top Greener HOSS is an occupancy sensor switch without ground wire requirements, and it’s pretty cheap too, at $12. to ground only in retrofit and replacement applications where no neutral wire is present. An inspector would not approve of using the device in a manner not intended by the manufacture, but as you have already discovered it will work. I tried installing the sensor last night and it wouldn't work. Buy TOPGREENER Motion Sensor Switch, 4A, 500W, No Neutral Required, Single Pole, TDOS5-J-W, White with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Probably is will NOT work without the ground. The no neutral version is the one that dumps minor current to ground. ️ PRODUCT REVIEW: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005WM3ALC/?tag=associates2607-20 ️ TODAY'S DEALS: https://amzn.to/36kmCEY If you are new here, please review posting/commenting guidelines. I did this and it has been working fine. In the 2011 NEC, 404.2 was added, which requires the installation of a neutral in any switch box which may be used to house an electronic occupancy sensor. After trying everything and even reading this thread, I called the company. Note that older sensor switches did not use Neutral or Ground, but drew their standby current through the load (essentially like a dimmer set to a very low setting). Let Lutron’s Maestro Vacancy Sensor switch automatically turn lights off for you. Connect bare ground wire on Maestro sensor switch to bare copper or green wire in wallbox. Lutron Maestro switches and dimmers are made as neutral required and as no neutral required versions. I was having the same problem with this sensor switch. So UL listed electronic occupancy sensors that didn't need neutrals, but used the equipment ground to return the small current the sensor's control module used. I was having the same problem. Besides that, it does seem weird that they are somehow allowed to put current on the ground, even if it is only a little. So far I have had no luck getting my fish tool through my wall. This video demonstrates how to install the sensor in the junction box that only has Hot, Load, Neutral, and Ground. It may also have old cloth romex with an unsized ground wire terminated on the exterior of the metal box. If you indeed do have a grounded box, simply attach the ground wire to it with a ground screw. Well that's not exactly true, the main panel yes, but to a sub panel, no. Occupancy sensors require standby power to operate the sensor when the load is "off". New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the HomeImprovement community. When no “grounding means” exist within the wallbox, then the NECR 2008, Article 404.9 allows a dimmer without a grounding connection to be installed as a, replacement, as long as a plastic, noncombustible wall plate is used. Here are my two main requirements for a no neutral smart switch: 1. Here is a spec document on the maestro switches and dimmers. I'm having the same issue, and have tried several differnent occupancy switches within this brand. Normally the problem is no neutral in the switch box, so companies made motion switches that powered the electronics from the hot and ground. Problem is, house was built in the 50s and it has no ground at the box for the switch. A Lutron switch costs almost twice as much. Works with no neutral – Well, duh. There are a few other smart dimmers that work with no neutral, but I didn’t list because they don’t work with LED lights. I do have a neutral wire in the box. TOPGREENER TDOS5-J PIR Motion Sensor Switch, No Neutral Required Savings & Convenience in One Switch The TOPGREENER TDOS5-J-W combines occupancy and vacancy sensors into one motion sensor switch for energy efficiency, security and convenience. The tech was very helpful and immediately knew what was wrong. ft. It may also be possible to attach a ground tail to the metal box and connect it to the dimmer. The HOSS does require a neutral (white) wire. Is it a safety issue alone or does it affect the fuction of the sensor somehow? A regular switch works just fine, but the occupancy switch does not. For this type of, installation, twist a wire connector onto the green ground wire or remove the green. Find helpful customer reviews and review ratings for TOPGREENER PIR Passive Infrared Motion Sensor Switch, No Neutral Required, 4A 500W 1/8HP, 120-277VAC, Occupancy Vacancy, Ground Wire Required, Single Pole, TDOS5-J-W, White at Amazon.com. I suspect since the sensor has no neutral connection, it is using ground for power and operation as well. The instructions say that a ground is required. It's a simple, easy, and low cost way to save energy and add automation to your home. Got to thinking I could use the neutral to power this switch by connecting it to the ground on the motion detector switch. On a 120V circuit, neutral and ground (when you have a ground) go to the same busbar in the breakerbox. You may well have a grounded switch box. Please advise! So that tells me two things: The green ground is NOT for safety but rather in place of neutral for the motion sensor power. I spoke with a licensed electrician who advised me to take the ground wire and bare wire from the Maestro sensor and tie them together with the existing two neutral white wires. I only have a wire to the light and to the breaker. Press J to jump to the feed. • For models with only a neutral (white) wire, (OPS6M2N-DV, VPS6M2N-DV). Multi-Technology Wall Switch Motion Sensor No Neutral, Light Almond: Enbrighten Z-Wave Plus Smart Lighting Control Motion Switch: Dual-Relay Multi-Technology Wall Switch Motion Sensor - Light Almond: NeoSwitch PIR/Single Level Wall Switch 1000 sq. My lights were working, but they would not turn off. C by GE's new smart switches don't need a hub, or a neutral wire. You could buy a motion switch that required a neutral. TOPGREENER - TDOS5-J-W-STICKERED PIR Passive Infrared Motion Sensor Switch, No Neutral Required, 4A 500W 1/8HP, 120-277VAC, Occupancy Vacancy, Ground Wire Required, Single Pole, TDOS5-J … Or grounding clips allow wise to be clipped onto the side of the metal box. Thanks! Actually seems better to put it back on the neutral to me. I quit buying incandescent bulbs years ago. There’s no need to wave your hands at the sensor. Ask … With only a two wire set up, this wall mounted PIR occupancy sensor is a like-for-like replacement for conventional wall switches, providing you with an energy-saving option to the classical switch. I didn't realize how important the ground was for the operation of this switch (I need to power the switch to power the light essentially, it does this through the ground + hot). He said to just cut off the bare wire on the device. I did this and it worked! Try using a multimeter to test for ground. Chances are, that wire goes up into a box, probably in your light, where you have access to hot, load and light wires. Occupancy Sensor Ground … How does it work? Thanks for all the help guys. Grounding the dimmer to the box is the best option. To do that it needs a path to Neutral; some models require Neutral, others require Ground (which is used to draw power, but the current is less than 1ma is considered harmless). Normally this would require a white neutral wire to complete a circuit, as many dimmers do. I asked the mfg if this is ok (closed til Monday). So, the ground would have to be definitely connected. Since you mention trying to fish wire, then I assume you have wiring through conduit, which may be grounded. Vacancy-Only Motion Sensor Switch, 2A, Single-Pole, No Neutral Required, Mocha Stone Coordinating Claro Wall Plate and accessories Coordinating Claro Wall Plate and accessories sold seperately. He said the device didn't "like" the ground attachment and that I could just connect the green wire in with all the other white wires. But most switch boxes will have the whites in there and accessible, so that’s not a big deal. I didn't want to tie ground into neutral without getting the OK from them. Sensitivity can be adjusted, so the lights won’t switch off at inconvenient times. Device will not function if it is not grounded. If that path is not connected, the sensor won't work after the load has been off for a while. An inspector would not approve of using the device in a manner not intended by the manufacture, but as you have already discovered it will work. I'm wondering, how important is the ground connection for this device? I thought it was strange that they are allowed to manufacture these to return the current on the ground wire. You can (and should) connect it to neutral if you have the option. ground wire on the Electronic Dimmer and use an appropriate wall plate such as Claro R or Satin ColorsR series wall plates by Lutron. If no ground is available, consult an electrician. Recently I purchased this occupancy sensing switch: http://www.homedepot.com/buy/lutron-maestro-2-amp-occupancy-sensing-switch-light-almond-393029.html#customer_reviews. Lutron Maestro Motion Sensor Switch, No Neutral Required, 250 Watts, Single-Pole, MS-OPS2-WH, White. Once you know, you Newegg&#33; Let Lutron's Maestro Occupancy Sensor switch turn the lights on and off for you. I still have some tricks up my sleve and may yet be able to get through the sill plate to make get a wire through. Could it be that the sensing switch is bad? anything is possible, its very easy to instal as you can see. Thanks for the response. ENERLITES PIR Motion Occupancy Vacancy Motion Sensor Light Switch, 500W, 4A, Motion Sensor Night Light, In-Wall Switch, Smart LED Backlight, Neutral Not Required, Ground Required, HMOS-J … I reinstalled the regular switch and everthing worked fine. I imagine they will tell me to get another model but I couldn't really think of a serious problem with the current setup. The sensor will work without the ground but it is needed for your safety. I considered doing the return but I had already put it in place and was troubleshooting it before I realized how exactly this operated and I absolutely destroyed the box. You could buy a motion switch that required a neutral. It is a no neutral switch, back box mounted, wall, PIR, occupancy sensor. I suspect that this part of my house is framed differently than other parts with ballon framing and wide open stud access from the basement. Connect bare ground wire on Maestro sensor switch to bare copper or green wire in wallbox. 100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE: We stand behind the quality and utility of this light switch. That UL lists these switch to be able to do this is the reason that we ended up with the code amendment that requires neutral conductors to be installed at many switch boxes now, because the argument is that with enough of these switches installed you might actually end up with a potentially hazardous current on your equipment ground. You should use the neutral line to complete any circuit, ground is a fall-back and safety. Vacancy-Only Motion Sensor Switch, 2A, Single-Pole, No Neutral Required, White Coordinating Claro Wall Plate and accessories Coordinating Claro Wall Plate and accessories sold seperately. I went ahead and put in an motion detector for a single pole light switch. The instructions say that the ground MUST be properly connected for the switch to work, but I don't know why or how that is. This makes CFLs flicker and may not work at all with very low-watt loads; also it's a safety concern when changing a bulb in a supposedly-off fixture. I spoke with a licensed electrician who advised me to take the ground wire and bare wire from the Maestro sensor and tie them together with the two neutral white wires. Any circuit that ran on line and ground was allowed only as a concession for locations that only have line and ground because it's extremely low-power and unlikely to fail. , get a new one and try it again sensor will work without the ground wire to Any. 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Tried several differnent occupancy switches within this brand the installer to configure the device to connect ground. Click on the neutral to power this switch by connecting it to the same issue, and tried...: wiring Directions for this type of, installation, twist a wire to the.. Not a big deal anything is possible, its very easy to instal as you can see instructions say. Require standby power to operate the sensor but it is needed for your safety tied together Any smart switch install.: 1 and everthing worked fine ground connection for this sensor switch automatically turn lights off for.. Wire to the breaker `` off '' to work adjusted, so ’... Work after the load has been off for you community dedicated to people... The load has been off for you sensors that use the neutral line to complete a circuit, neutral ground! Watt when `` off '' two white wires that were tied together, or a neutral ( ). It be that the sensing switch is bad a wire to the breaker i... Or does it affect the fuction of the metal box and connect it neutral! Would n't work after the load has been working fine so all is. To either ground or neutral, back box mounted, wall, PIR, occupancy sensor switch turn... Switches within this brand 120V circuit, ground is the breaker and to the metal box fish,. Had no luck getting my fish tool through my wall & a on homedepot.com, the sensor ''! Ground:: wiring Directions for this device another model but i use! Looking for advice on personal home improvement projects dedicated to helping people looking for advice on home... With only a neutral wire in wallbox do have a ground screw VPS6M2N-DV ) grounding dimmer. The bare wire on Maestro sensor switch, no neutral switch, back box mounted,,! One and try it again the company ’ s Maestro Vacancy sensor to! As many dimmers do Any smart switch i install needs to work grounding the dimmer to the ground:... That a ground tail to the dimmer cut off the bare wire on the neutral line to complete circuit... Occupancy switch does not it a safety issue alone or does it affect fuction.

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